I'd like to start off by saying that I can't tell you how much I love Avidemux. I've been using it for years to cut short snippets of video out of things without re-encoding. It's truly amazing! I only have one true gripe.
I tend to mostly use the keyboard shortcuts to navigate the interface and I find the inconsistency between these two sets of shortcuts to be extremely confusing. You press down to go to the previous keyframe and up to go to the next keyframe, but you press page UP to go to the earlier marker and page DOWN to go to the later marker, which kind of feels like the opposite behavior.
Do you guys think you would ever consider standardizing this? I don't really care which set you change, but I really do think it would feel much more intuitive to have the two sets of shortcuts in sync with each other.
Never noticed that, but IMHO its a fair comment.
On a normal keyboard the numeric pad also has PgUp next to the up arrow and PgDn next to the down arrow.
So it would be more intuitive (positional and naming wise) for those that use the keyboard short cuts.
I think I may have noticed it because my keyboard doesn't actually HAVE page up and page down keys, so I press Fn-Up for Page Up, and Fn-Down for Page Down. So I'm actually using the same arrow keys for both sets of shortcuts. But even for those who use the page up and page down keys, I think it is an inconsistent system.
I know for me, UP intuitively means backwards and DOWN means forward, whereas I asked my friend and she felt the opposite, that DOWN means backwards and UP means forwards. So WHICH set of shortcuts would be better to change is definitely going to vary from person to person, but even just having the two sets be standardized with each other would make it easier to remember!
Quote from: divergirl on January 01, 2016, 08:14:39 AM
I think I may have noticed it because my keyboard doesn't actually HAVE page up and page down keys, so I press Fn-Up for Page Up, and Fn-Down for Page Down. So I'm actually using the same arrow keys for both sets of shortcuts.
Apologies for the grave-dig, but I run into this very issue all the time and it drives me NUTS,
especially since I regularly use Fn+up/down arrow keys (PageUp/PageDown) all the time to navigate web browser tabs (Ctrl+PageDown = next tab to the right; Ctrl+PageUp = previous tab on the left).
Therefore, since down = next and up = previous is the standard behavior in other programs, it would be wise if Avidemux followed that.
Are you using Windows? It is so simple to cross-build Avidemux on Linux for Windows with any shortcuts you wish that maybe you could give it a try.
@ eumagga0x2a
It's not so simple for 99% of the windows based end users.
These people have no familiarity with Linux or building software from source, let alone making modifications to suit.
Just my 2cnts worth on behalf of the windows folks, as I very much appreciate all the efforts you have put into this community recently.
Quote from: AQUAR on December 19, 2016, 12:37:38 PMIt's not so simple for 99% of the windows based end users.
Indeed; consider that I use Avidemux
because it has a simple-to-use GUI so I don't have to deal with x264 command line stuff.
And I'm one of those rare people that are actually quite computer literate (I've removed 3 CPU IHSes by hand without any damage) but I'm so spacial-sense oriented* that abstract things like coding, command line, and even plain-old algebra can trip me up massively.
OFF TOPIC:*Conversely, I can take a just single lap through a building and just from that already have a good idea of the floor plan. Heck, the one time my family and I went to a "hall of mirrors" while on vacation and I was basically their guide as I had mentally mapped out the entire thing and afterwards was able to walk through it without touching a single wall save for one at the end of a long straight because I was never too sure where the straight ended.
I agree that "UP = backwards, DOWN = forwards" is more logical and natural too, but if we change it, all the people who feel it other way round will crash the gates complaining. There is no easy solution because the shortcuts are hardcoded all over the place including the Qt .ui XML files and their translations. Patches welcome.
So said, if you want to have the configuration comfortable for you right now, overcome your reluctance, install Linux (a virtual machine is sufficient) and build Avidemux from source. You probably won't belong to 99% of the humanity afterwards, though ;)
Quote from: eumagga0x2a on December 19, 2016, 11:32:44 PMif we change it, all the people who feel it other way round will crash the gates complaining
Are you
really sure that those people believe that up/down should behave the exact opposite of PageUp/PageDown?
When Mean changed the keyboard shortcuts some time ago, there were already various end users complaining and arguing about the most sensible correlations from their perspectives and hardware layout.
Sometimes it just has to be the way it is because it suits the Author.
Well then the obvious solution is customizable shortcuts like in MPC-HC.
What seems obvious could be not so obvious. Developer wise other issues could be in play: huge time shortage, more complex as you think, ...
Maybe your in luck and sometime, maybe you see the change(s) implemented?
I can't tell I'm not a developer.
Well personally I think it's more obvious that Avidemux's behavior should match the behavior of other pre-existing programs, but I mentioned customizable shortcuts since surely that is something that everyone can get behind (except for maybe a developer in case it'd be a total pain to implement :P) .
The current shortcuts for previous/next keyframe and go to marker A/B originate from the commit [ui] Add shortcuts (https://github.com/mean00/avidemux2/commit/9d57ad44455b4786300e1d25b05c2af3ed38e819) which is more than 6 years old.
It is not like there were a disagreement that the current state of affairs should improve, but you'd be better off with building Avidemux from source with a customized avidemux/common/ADM_commonUI/myOwnMenu.h (https://github.com/mean00/avidemux2/blob/master/avidemux/common/ADM_commonUI/myOwnMenu.h) for the near future.
Any work on customizable shortcuts should probably start with removing hardcoded tooltips from gui2.ui.
Quote from: eumagga0x2a on December 22, 2016, 11:35:04 PM
The current shortcuts for previous/next keyframe and go to marker A/B originate from the commit [ui] Add shortcuts (https://github.com/mean00/avidemux2/commit/9d57ad44455b4786300e1d25b05c2af3ed38e819) which is more than 6 years old.
Web browsers have been using Ctrl+PageUp/PageDown to navigate between tabs (with up = left; down = right) since at
least Firefox 2.0.8 from 2007 (that's the oldest version available on PortableApps (https://sourceforge.net/projects/portableapps/files/Mozilla%20Firefox%2C%20Portable%20Ed./Mozilla%20Firefox%2C%20Portable%20Edition%202.0.0.8/Firefox_Portable_2.0.0.8_en-us.paf.exe/download)).
Tabbed browsing shortcuts are way older, they were available in the Mozilla Suite long before Firefox (Phoenix back then) was conceived: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136915 (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136915). Why should it matter for Avidemux? There are no tabs to switch.
If you want a set of shortcuts which works around limitations of a laptop keyboard, build from source with modifications you like or contribute patches to speed up things for everyone. Or attach an actually usable external keyboard.
Quote from: eumagga0x2a on December 23, 2016, 12:13:29 AMWhy should it matter for Avidemux? There are no tabs to switch.
My point is that there is much software precedent that down = right; up = left.
Developer prerogative, whatever we think or request.
Time up, time down is logic too.
Quote from: Jan Gruuthuse on December 23, 2016, 07:01:35 AM
Developer prerogative, whatever we think or request.
Time up, time down is logic too.
But if that were the case, then PageUp would seek forward while PageDown would seek backwards...which is not the case in Avidemux.
Let me put it this way - would you feel that the following would make sense at all?
PageUp = seek to next marker
PageDown = seek to previous marker
UpArrow = seek to previous i-frame
DownArrow = seek to next i-frame
You don't understand? :
Developer prerogative, whatever we think or request.
Quote from: Jan Gruuthuse on December 23, 2016, 07:49:32 AM
You don't understand? :
Developer prerogative, whatever we think or request.
That doesn't make it any less silly to have PageUp/PageDown and UpArrow/DownArrow go in the exact opposite directions of eachother!
Look, while I prefer that down = seek forward, the fact that Avidemux uses "DownArrow = seek backwards" isn't the main issue here, is that Avidemux currently does this:
DownArrow = previous i-frame
PageDown =
next marker
Nobody in their right could say that makes sense; either make them both be 'previous' or make them both be 'next' - don't split the difference and make things inconsistent and therefore confusing!
made: Feature request: change behavior of PageUp / PageDown (reverse action) (http://avidemux.org/smif/index.php/topic,17361.0.html)
maybe sometime ... in the (near) future. all we can do wait ...